Rayon and Water Temperature

[polymorph]

Does anyone here use Procion MX on rayon?

Rayon takes color so beautifully, and I'd love to try some scrunched pieces - but I've been afraid to try.  The idea of using - GASP! - HOT water to rinse out the dye gives me the willies!
[ Insert mental image here of the fabric dissolving, like the Wicked Witch of the West,  the instant the hot water touches it... ]  

Here's the question:  Can viscose rayon really survive hot-water scouring and hot-water rinse-out?  More specifically, assuming  I wash and rinse by hand, can I use the same LWI techniques on adult-sized rayon garments as I would on cotton?  Will they emerge from the sink properly dyed, rinsed out, and larger than a postage stamp?  Without a hunchback or a limp? Really?  
If hot water is a no-no, what about the product D***** sells for cold-fixing MX dyes on cotton and silk?  (Does it work on anything, for that matter?)  

I'd welcome input from any brave soul who has taken the plunge, and is willing to tell their rayon story - good, bad, or even embarassing.  

Brenda (in not-yet-sunny Oregon)

[steve]

I have only used the Kaufmans' rayon/linen blend. You are right about it taking color so nicely. The jobber's catalogue called it washer rayon, so I suppose that doesn't count. Nice stuff, but the fabric was way thick. Oh well--I have a bolt of it now.

I suspect you could wash it in warm water or even cold, but I'd give it many washes before I would call it color fast.

By the way--

You can say that word here.

Dharma Dharma Dharma Dharma

See?

Most of us are looking for alternatives, (Indeed, some may be offered here in the future) but I have no problem with mentioning their products or any others as long as it doesn't turn into an advertisement!

So go ahead--I hope everyone feels free to discuss whatever they are using!

Steve

[steve]

BTW--

What does Tom and Martine's dvd say about that? They use rayon for tapestry and mandala folds>

Steve

[unformedmatter]

i've dyes many rayon items, with great success. i can tell you the hot water isn't going to bother your stuff. the dryer is the bad guy, not the washer. i have a front loader with a sanitary wash that gets up to 160 degrees with the stain cycle on. i've done quite a few scarves. several skirts, blouses, and dresses with great success. i use the same exact methods as on cotton, and just forego the dryer. iron when still a smidge on the damp side, for ease of wrinkle removal.
rayon just absolutely glows with mx dyes!

the other concern with rayon is how fragile the fiber itself is when wet, it is much easier to rip or tear than when dry. don't wash your rayon with other stuff, particularly with anything that can twist it up and possibly rip it, or anything that can catch (ie. bra hooks etc). if you have a middle agitator (top loader), and you are worried, you can use a garment bag. (for lingerie etc). again, not a problem with my front loader, so i can't help you there.

[pburch]

I think you should be fine as long as you are hand-washing very gently. The real problem with rayon is that it is very fragile when wet. You can even safely do a hot water soak, I think, if you do almost no agitation or abrasion during it. The most efficient use of hot water is to add it to the garment and let it soak until the water is cool. Soaking in hot water removes a lot more of the excess dye than just rinsing it.

You can use Retayne or Raycafix or other cationic dye fixatives to reduce washoff. It is not necessary, though, and once you've done it you may not be able to overdye the garment again. Also, these products sometimers reduce lightfastness significantly. ProChem's instructions for Retayne say to apply it with hot water, anyway.

I dye rayon a lot. I also machine-wash all of my 'dry clean only' rayon clothing. I've lost one 'dry clean only' rayon dress to fraying in my own machine, out of maybe twenty or thirty garments, which is a very acceptable loss rate considering the savings of money, time, and trouble, plus avoiding exposure to carcinogenic chemicals. I also lost a couple of rather low-quality dress blanks to fraying, when I prewashed them in an inferior washing machine at a vacation home. This experience convinced me to use a large lingerie bag in future when I'm not using the special 'delicate' cycle on my own washing machine at home. I've had no problems since. I also machine dry all of my rayons, because this leaves them smooth and unwrinkled with no need for ironing, but this is safe only if you have a very gentle dryer and are careful to sort your clothes by weight.

Paula

[sal_beli]

I think you should be fine as long as you are hand-washing very gently. The real problem with rayon is that it is very fragile when wet. You can even safely do a hot water soak, I think, if you do almost no agitation or abrasion during it. The most efficient use of hot water is to add it to the garment and let it soak until the water is cool. Soaking in hot water removes a lot more of the excess dye than just rinsing it.

 I've had no problems since. I also machine dry all of my rayons, because this leaves them smooth and unwrinkled with no need for ironing, but this is safe only if you have a very gentle dryer and are careful to sort your clothes by weight.

Paula

Well, I'm going to give this method a try.  Thanks for being here ot answer my questions even before I ask them!

[sal_beli]

Well,

Today is finally the day to try my hand a dying Rayon.  Wish me luck!  I'll post results when I have them.

gw

[sal_beli]

Well,

I did the synthropol wash out on gentle cycle, and I fixed and dyed.  Normally, I use a microwave to activate the dye in cotton, but I decided to wait untill tomorrow to wash out instead.  I didn't know how the rayon would react in the microwave.

I plan on doing the hot water rinse and gentle synthropol wash out tomorrow.  Now, I usually also do a vinegar washout before the regular soap and fabric softener washout.  

Does anyone have an oppion on using vinegar with Rayon.  I've never owned a piece of rayon clothing, so I'm pretty clueless.

thanks