iTieDye: Your Tie-dye Forum
February 11, 2012, 02:24:06 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you want to join the forum, respond to your registration confirmation email with a coherent paragraph outlining your interest in tie-dyeing. All registrations without this response will be ignored.
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Visit the new Tie-Dye Wiki! Register and contribute more information!
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: bleach stop  (Read 3456 times)
ktaltre
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 315


View Profile
« on: September 21, 2007, 04:09:34 PM »

There is a body of misinformation floating around about how to neutralize bleach.
The only way to stop the action of bleach upon fabric is with a product called sodium thiosulfate, commonly known as anti-chlor or bleach stop. Hydrogen peroxide won't do it; vinegar won't do it. Rinsing a lot with water won't do it.

Here is Dharma's page on anti-chlor/bleach stop:
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/620804-AA.shtml?lnav=chemicals.html

Here is ProChem's directions for anti-chlor/bleach stop:
http://www.prochemical.com/directions/AntiChlor.htm

And here is the page to order from ProChem:
http://www.prochemical.com/catalog/auxiliaries.htm

There's also a liquid product in aquarium/fish/pet stores that neutralizes chlorine in water for the fish tanks, that I have heard others say can be used as bleach stop, but the products at Dharma and ProChem are cheaper to use.

k. taltre





Logged
pburch
Tie-dye Wiki Author
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 436



View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 05:24:34 AM »

I'm afraid that I must disagree. You are correct that vinegar will not safely neutralize hypochlorite (the active ingredient in chlorine bleach), and that thiosulfate will, but metabisulfite and peroxide are in completely different categories from vinegar.

The problem with vinegar is that acids react with hypochlorite to form even more caustic and deadly chlorine gas. One should never mix acid with hypochlorite, and vinegar is an acid.

However, thiosulfate is not the only chemical that will safely and completely neutralize hypochlorite bleach. Both sodium metabisulfite (ProChem's Anti-Chlor) and hydrogen peroxide (3% solution) are just as effective and safe as thiosulfate. ProChem does not even sell sodium thiosulfate.

Thiosulfate is an excellent bleach-stopping chemical, but it is slightly less practical for use than Anti-Chlor, because a much larger quantity needs to be used, making it less convenient and more expensive. While one gallon (4 liters) of neutralizing solution requires one ounce (30 grams) of sodium thiosulfate, the same amount of neutralizing solution made with metabisulfite requires less than half a teaspoon, or just 0.9 grams of Anti-Chlor. Dharma's Bleach-Stop costs a very reasonable 25¢ per gallon of neutralizing solution, but ProChem's Anti-Chlor costs less than 1¢ for an equivalent amount.

Hydrogen peroxide works excellently as a bleach neutralizing chemical. Hypochlorite reacts with hydrogen peroxide to form chlorine ion (the same as found in salt water), water, and oxygen gas. Its chief drawback is its cost. A half-liter bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide solution bottle costs 79¢ at my local drugstore. I once used half a bottle to neutralize a child's shirt, so the cost was about 40¢ for one use; I probably could have used less, but this is not something I want to experiment with. The shirt had been soaked extensively in bleach solution, because its navy blue commercial dye was partially resistant to the bleach action; in contrast, a black tee discharged in the same session was bleached to off-white within seconds. After being neutralized with peroxide, the shirt was worn and washed probably more than a hundred times before it wore out. When the fabric wore out, holes appeared only in parts of the shirt that had never been exposed to the bleach. Thus, experience shows that peroxide is highly effective as a bleach neutralizer on cotton.

Individuals who have asthma and are sensitive to the effects of sulfite-containing preservatives (a chemical essentially identical to Anti-Chlor, problematical for some asthmatics when used in dried fruit or wine) may find that hydrogen peroxide is safer to use than the sulfur-containing bleach neutralizers such as Bleach-Stop or Anti-Chlor. I recommend that people who are sensitive to sulfites always use peroxide as a substitute when neutralizing bleach.

For more information on this topic, see "How can I neutralize the damaging effects of chlorine bleach?".

Paula

Logged

ktaltre
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 315


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 05:53:32 AM »

Well, I now realize that Dharma and Prochem sell different bleach stop products.
ProChem sells the sodium bisulfite and Dharma sells the sodium thiosulfate.
I have always bought and used the anti-chlor from ProChem and didn't realize the two companies sold different chemicals for neutralizing bleach. I do now!
And I apologize for my faulty knowledge on hydrogen peroxide as a bleach neutralizing agent. My experience with hydrogen peroxide is that it will also "eat" fabric, but in the fabric in question was exposed to hydrogen peroxide over a period of time without being rinsed or washed; then when washed, fell apart.
I still think that anti-chlor is the best agent to neutralize bleach.
Thank you, Paula, for you extensive body of knowledge and for sharing it with us non chemists!
k. taltre
(and there I was, spreading more misinformation! sorry!)
Logged
pburch
Tie-dye Wiki Author
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 436



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 06:31:10 AM »

Your information was tremendously superior to that found in many otherwise good books on dyeing! It's disheartening to read another book and find that it advises the use of vinegar or pure acetic acid for neutralizing bleach. I most recently found this in Kate Wells' Fabric Dyeing & Printing, which otherwise is one of the best sources I've found on different reducing agents and some other topics in dyeing.  (It's not a new book, published in 1997, but I recently reread it.)

Don Weiner who used to work for ProChem (I don't know whether or not he still does) used to say that hydrogen peroxide was no good for neutralizing bleach. Doug Wilson's posts on the DyersLIST mailing list completely convinced me otherwise, which is why I tried it in the first place. Don Weiner otherwise was a reliable source of information, but he couldn't understand that one oxidizing agent could react with another.

Can you give more details about your experience with peroxide eating fabric? Was it cotton fabric, and was the concentration of peroxide high or low? Since peroxide is an oxidizing agent, it does make sense that extended exposure could damage fabric. It is used to bleach some fibers. It apparently rinses out completely, though, needing no neutralizing of its own, and brief exposures followed by washing appear to be perfectly safe, for cotton at least.

Paula
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 06:34:44 AM by pburch » Logged

ktaltre
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 315


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 02:50:20 PM »

I had dripped hydrogen peroxide on a cotton rug, every day, over a period of several months. The peroxide was the normal drugstore variety (3%?). The rug did not survive the wash, haha.
BTW, hydrogen peroxide is good for blood stains on fabric; using it on a fresh stain works best, rinse the stain with cold water, put on the peroxide, wait a bit, then rinse and wash.
Jane Dunnewold's first printing of "Complex Cloth" (1996) has vinegar to neutralize bleach too, but I heard she changed that to anti-chlor in a later printing.
I'm feeling like I should experiment with peroxide as a bleaching agent.........
k. taltre


Logged
Kathy
Full Member
***
Posts: 132



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 10:27:31 AM »

Paula,
I seem to remember you mentioning the use of Oxyclean for neutralizing discharge paste. I can't find the post but am I correct in remembering this?

Kathy
Logged

Desert Dyeworks Oh so much color
pburch
Tie-dye Wiki Author
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 436



View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 10:41:30 AM »

Not discharge paste. Like all of the reductive discharges, discharge paste does not need to be neutralized, only rinsed out and exposed to the oxygen in the air. It must have been chlorine bleach.

Oxyclean contains sodium percarbonate, which is made by reacting hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. When dissolved in water, it releases the hydrogen peroxide again, which can safely neutralize hypochlorite (chlorine bleach).

Paula
Logged

Kathy
Full Member
***
Posts: 132



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 12:41:01 PM »

When I wrote "discharge paste" I was thinking of the dishwasher gell that Judy had talked about in another thread.

Either way, you answered my question about Oxyclean!
Thanks,
Kathy
Logged

Desert Dyeworks Oh so much color
pburch
Tie-dye Wiki Author
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 436



View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 12:43:08 PM »

Oh, right, that's chlorine bleach, too.

Paula
Logged

tiedyejudy
Tie-dye Wiki Author
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 650



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 01:47:14 AM »


Oxyclean contains sodium percarbonate, which is made by reacting hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. When dissolved in water, it releases the hydrogen peroxide again, which can safely neutralize hypochlorite (chlorine bleach).


I have some OxiClean left from when our grandkids were here, and I was just looking at the container.  There is a warning on back not to use with chlorine bleach or ammonia products.  I'm assuming the amount of bleach in dishwashing gel is insignificant enough to allow use of OxiClean?

Judy 
Logged


www.tiedyejudy.artfire.com
www.hippiewear.blogspot.com

"Life without tie-dye is waaaaay dull!"
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.15 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!